daniel : chapter 8

Third year of Belshazzar

2 years past chapter 7, prior to chap 6.

The Vision (v2-14)

The Ram (v3,4)

The ram has 2 horns, but one is larger than the other (v3)
The ram is the toughest guy around, and does what he wants(v4)

The Goat (v5-14)

The goat with the 'conspicuous' horn appears and kicks ram butt (v5-7).
Then the goat's horn is broken, and in it's place spring up 4 horns (v8).
One of these horns gets bigger than the others, growing south, east, and towards the 'beautiful land' (v9).
It causes the downfall of some of the host of heaven (on account of transgression) and the stars, it boasts about being equal with the 'commander of the host', and it removes God's sacrifices and destroys His sanctuary for 2300 'evenings and mornings' (v10-14)

The Interpretation (v15-27)

The Intro (v15-19)

Daniel wishes he knew what was going on (don't we all) (v15)
Someone tells Gabriel to throw Daniel a bone (v16), which Gabriel proceeds to do (v17-19)
Gabriel says that the vision is "pertains to the time of the end" (v17, v19).

The Ram (v20)

The ram is Media and Persia.

The Goat (v21-26)

The goat is Greece, and the large horn is the first king (v21).
The 4 horns which arise afterwards represent 4 kingdoms which will arise afterwards (though they won't be as strong) (v22).
"In the latter period of their rule", a punk king will become powerful, destroy many, including "the holy people", and oppose God (v23,24).
Then he will be broekn "without human agency" (v25).
The record of the evenings and mornings is to be kept secret (v26).

The Postscript (v27)

Daniel is exhausted and sick for days, and remains confused by the vision ("there was none to explain it") (v27).

What is meant by "the holy place and host being trampled" for "2,300 evenings and mornings" (v13,14)?

- option: this number represents 1,500 days

the 2,300 is for the morning and evening sacrifice.
that makes 3.15 years, or 3 years and just under 2 months, meaning that the period would start in sept of 167 and go until the restoration of the temple in dec of 164.
that would assume that the problem here would predate the setup of the alter to zeus, which was in Dec 164; perhaps it is dated from the start of the altar, or perhaps there were problems prior to the altar.

- option: this number correctly represents 2,300 days of problems

that makes 6.3 years, or 6 years and 3.8 months (ish).
that works for the time from the death of the former high priest (Onias III) in 170 BC (done at the urging of a priest who had been appointed thru a bribe) until the restoration of the temple in Dec of 164.

- option: this number is just wrong

some argue that the prophecy is just plain wrong (that it was written while the temple was violated but before it had been restored)

When is the "time of the end" (v17,19)?

- option: this refers to the end of these times

the language could indicate that it is specifying the end of the events being discussed.

- option: this refers to the end of time

the language could indicate that the events happen at the end of world history/time.
that would probabaly mean that this is a both/and situation, and that at some point our discussion of the goat became a discussion of a kingdom at the end of time.

What is meant by "broken without human agency" (v25)?

- option: he died of grief/madness

1 Macc 6:1-16 says that Antiochus died of grief and remorse in Persia after being defeated in a seige of Elymais, and receiving word that his army had lost to the jews in Palestine.
polybius says that he went mad and died after attempting to rob a temple in persia due to divine displeasure.

- option: something else...

who knows, get creative

What is the record of the evenins/mornings that is to be kept secret, and why is/was it a secret? (v26)

the vision is to be kept 'sealed', not secret, for the sake preservation

the vision applies to the future, and should be preserved for those days.

the vision is to be kept secret and hidden from certain eyes.

not sure why really...

539 BC - Persia becomes the dominant world power.

Persia takes over Babylon, effectively ending the Babylonian empire and becoming the largest power on the scene.
Persia becomes the largest empire the world has yet seen, encompassing territory from Egypt and Macedon, to the Indus river.

500 BC (ish)- Persia attempts to invade Greece, ultimately failing

Phase I - The First Invasion (500 - 490 BC)

After clashing with the Greeks in Europe, Persia attempts to squash the Greeks.
In 491, Darius demands the submission of Greece (for their assistance to the Ionian greek uprising, 499-494); Athens and Sparta refuse.
490 BC - Darius mounts an invasion of Greece, but is defeated by a vastly smaller force at Marathon.

Phase II - The Second Invasion (480/479 BC)

Immediately after Marathon, Darius begins planning for a full scale invasion of Greece.
Darius dies before carrying it out (in 486 BC), passing the throne to Xerxes.
480 BC - Xerxes invades Greece, ultimately losing to the greeks at Thermopalyae, Salamis, and Plataea.

(Interlude: Greek city state fighting, Peloponessian war, Macedonian Dominance etc)
336 BC - Alexander The Great defeats Persia

336 BC - Alexander becomes king
335 BC - Alexander consolidates his hold on Greece
334/333 BC - Alexander begins war on Persian Empire
By 323, he has conquered Turkey, Palestine, Egypt, Babylon, Persia, Afganistan, Pakistan, and much of India.
He dies of a fever (Malaria?) on his return to Babylon.

301 BC - Alexanders kingdom divided between the 'diadochi'

Immediately after Alexander's death, the kingdom is passed to his son (an infant) and his half brother (who was mentally ill).
As such, the kingdom was ruled by regents.
Fighting soon broke out, culminating in the eventual division of the kingdom into 4 pieces:

Cassander in Macedon
Lysimachus in Thrace
Seleucus in Mesopotamia
Ptolomy I Soter In Egypt

The Seleucids become the largest dynasty, and around 175 Antiochas Epiphanes siezes the throne.

In 167 BC, Antiochas, as part of his attempt to force 'Hellenization' upon Judea, ordered an altar to Zeus built in the Temple.
In response, Mattathias, a priest, begins a revolt with his 5 sons.
By 165 BC, the revolt had succeeded in liberating Jerusalem and rededicating the temple.